b) The non-verbal understanding that allows to create koans and to interpret answers is difficult to pass along in a lineage. Le zen, dont Rinzai fut la première lignée à prendre racine au Japon, était considéré durant la période Kamakura comme « le bouddhisme des bushi [ 2 ] ». If you see a description of zazen as "just sitting," Soto zen has really taken that and run with it. Another part about zazen that I had never heard of before was the keisaku. The role of mediation for both Rinzai and Soto Zen is to prepare the mind for enlightenment. Before sitting down we were instructed how to handle the cushion and how to sit upon it, which was very different from Kencho-ji. Do you think the Rinzai formal system of koans works in practice in a modern Western setting? In these cases the teacher has to negotiate between keeping the heart of practice(s) that they have been transmitted and the particular needs of the local sangha. But I have to do something, don’t I. I can’t just sit here. Read More, Earlier this week, I hopped aboard a train to Yokohoma and headed to Sojiji temple.... Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Read More, If you frequent Japanese Shinto shrines, you may have noticed that they are commonly... Neben Zazen und Zeremonien spielt das Herz-Sutra beim Meditieren eine wichtige Rolle. This abandoning of the Vinaya Discipline marks a significant deviation of the Japanese Zen tradition from its Chinese Ch’an origin. Read More, © 2021 Sanpai Japan - WordPress Theme by Kadence Themes. I still sit alone in the dark usually. As opposed to what many people may think, in Soto Zen, Satori is not a special state of consciousness. After he is finished, you must bow to each other once more. shikantaza (just sitting) is only for advanced students, draw from a wider variety of literature and liturgy, koans are less central and used later in training, shikantaza is central meditation practice, tends to emphasize mindfulness and observance, most liturgy and literature comes from Dogen. Read More, There approximately 95,000 shrines and 86,000 temples in Japan. Doing nothing is doing something. With regard to Japanese Rinzai and Soto there are differences — not so much in the Chinese forms of Zen (Ch. We all sat on zufu cushions and on elevated platforms. At Kencho-ji, we sat in a large open space that had doors open to the outside. Dans Soto Zen, l’Éveil Bouddhiste n’est pas un état spécial de la conscience mais plutôt un retour à l'état originel de l’être humain. a) The original koans were created in a very different cultural and psychological context. Hybrid Zen: Rinzai and Soto Merged Yasutani Hakuun (born in 1885) was an unusual Japanese student who became a monk at 11 years of age, was ordained (in Soto Zen) at 13, and attained kensho at 42. During his ongoing practice and development, he encountered a dilemma that caused him to move, more and more, out of the mainstream of the institutional Japanese Buddhism establishment. During his ongoing practice and development, he encountered a dilemma that caused him to move, more and more, out of the mainstream of the institutional Japanese Buddhism establishment. It creates a mindset that is conducive to enlightenment. The most important factors were to keep your back straight, shoulders back, and eyes focused at a 45-degree angle to the floor. The Tokyo Jissha and the Journey to Enlightenment. Zazen is then the natural unfolding of one's Buddha nature. This place is a not-so-traditional version run out of what appears to be their home. I actually think that I preferred the Soto-zen at Sojiji because the dark room and position facing the wall helped me focus much more on my meditation. By the end of the classes I felt a new level of understanding and respect for Buddhist monks and Buddhist followers. It is comparable to the experience undergone by Gautama Buddha when he sat under the Bo tree and, as such, is the central Zen goal. I couldn't really say. I'm currently reading the complete poison blossom from a thicket thorn which is a culmination of hakuin zenjis work amazing stuff!! The differences are in the relative importance in day-to-day practice. e) r/zen is in a terrible shape due in part to misunderstanding of koans. Rinzai sits facing the room. c) Students can and will google the answers. Sometimes light but, nothing ever moving in my field of view. If you find that you cannot focus or are starting to feel tired, you raise your hands into “gassho,” which means placing your palms together as if you’re praying. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, A reddit for all kinds of Buddhist teachings, Press J to jump to the feed. as far as material differences between the two, you've already identified probably the key difference: Rinzai emphasizes a curriculum of koan practice while Soto does not. This... At first, the idea of the keisaku was frightening to me. Là, il séjourne durant un an au monastère de Jingdesi, sur le mont Tiantong, et découvre ainsi l'école Chán Caodong. In the back of my mind, I feel Zen would slap me in the face with the immediacy I need, but am too afraid to actually mentally confront it. They meditate like there is no tomorrow. But Soto Zen has never discarded the koan. Just like a flower coming into bloom, it makes no sense to force anything. Satori, Chinese Wu, in Zen Buddhism of Japan, the inner, intuitive experience of Enlightenment; Satori is said to be unexplainable, indescribable, and unintelligible by reason and logic. It seems Soto would be more suiting for me, assuming the teachers are closely following the tradition. The monks explained how to sit and hold your hands, and throughout the entire experience monks would come and correct you if your positioning was wrong. Morning. (This is because when I practiced Rinzai-zen, there were just foreign people so it was for beigner but when I practice Soto-zen,there were a lot of japanese.they get used to do it. L’Éveil ou Satori dans le Zen Soto est différente de celle de l'école Rinzai. That's the major difference :D. Rinzai zen is rather famous for being, as Alan Watts said, more gutsy than other schools. Soto says you are already already Buddha, so just sit and let your nature come forth. At Sojiji, to signal that you want to be tapped by the keisaku, you must tilt your head left, rather than place your hands in gassho like at Kencho-ji. is a useful explanatory device to highlight certain differences between Rinzai and Soto Zen practice today, at least for those students of Zen who have hitherto thought only in terms of Rinzai-style koan Zen. Despite what I had previously believed, I was told to keep my eyes open. Rinzai emphasizes the first definition and Soto emphasizes the second, but each school acknowledges the validity of both. Also many of the American Zen sanghas are blends of Soto and Rinzai so it’s increasingly less of a binary choice. 3) Soto Zen, the Japanese version of the Chinese … The fit isn't perfect, but the once-born, twice-born model does help to expose certain Also, all of us sat on the ground in a circle facing each other. Rinzai Zen in Japan today is very much Hakuin Zen, and all living Rinzai Zen teachers are of Hakuin's O-to-kan teaching lineage. More information:http://www.everydayzen.org I felt it odd that people were asking to be hit by a stick. Distinguishing Soto and Rinzai Zen: Manas and the Mental Mechanics of Meditation Distinguishing Soto and Rinzai Zen: Manas and the Mental Mechanics of Meditation Zhu, Rui 2005-07-07 00:00:00 Scholars have underestimated and misunderstood the distinction between Sōtō and Rinzai, the two major branches of Zen Buddhism, because they have either parroted the sectarian polemics of the … Perfect summation. The room was bright and we could hear people walking around and talking outside. It then pairs this with a willingness to get 'down & dirty' in bombastic elements. The keisaku, or “encouraging stick,” is a large paddle-like stick that a monk carries around the room. IMO the character of the teacher and sangha matter more than the lineage, though once you get used to one way of doing things it can seem like a lot of effort to switch (like for me, not sitting in front of a wall feels bizarre, but I make do). It is depend on the person.). I definitely believe that it is a personal preference on which is better suited for a person, and I would greatly suggest to foreigners that they try both types of zazen so they can experience the differences themselves. Shunryū Suzuki-Roshi. Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-07-00 . The Future of Integrated Resorts in Japan. It is accurate to say that Soto Zen considers the practice of Zazen to be the sole means of realization. Finally, you may return to meditating. Absolutely opposite, the room at Sojiji was dark and everyone faced the wall. Soto is, again to quote Alan, more serene. What more could you possibly need to know? This was a very difficult position, not only for foreigners, but for most Japanese people as well. However, I was able to see some significant differences between the two forms of zazen. Since the differences between these two schools is highly debated, I will explain only what I, an English-speaking foreigner, could plainly see as the differences. Soto takes a more gradual approach - kind of like a flower opening. Also Rinzai is a little more intense and formal, Soto is a little more casual and spontaneous. I'm not sure it matters much if at all. Unlike Soto Zen, which is more or less organized under the authority of the Soto Shu organization, Rinzai in Japan is a tradition of informally affiliated temples teaching Hakuin's Rinzai Zen. It was crucial to keep your eyes focused and to move them as little as possible. Then, you must lean over and hold both your elbows on the floor, making your body into a ball shape. C'est en 1223, alors que le zen japonais est dominé par l'école Rinzai, que le maître zen Dōgen se rend avec un des disciples d'Eisai en Chine. Hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject could provide some information on this. However, the keisaku is not used as a punishment but rather as encouragement for you to wake up and concentrate. I sit with a Sangha with a monk trained under the same Roshi, and I can tell you they are great. Soto is the passive hand of Zen, Rinzia the active hand. It is simply a return to a human being’s original condition. We were told that if we could not do this position we could lower one or both legs. Again I'm not sure it matters much. Members in each lineage are displayed in a … Get a koan wrong and you're likely to receive one-on-one instruction on beating as a means of focusing attention, to put it nicely. Im Unterschied dazu besteht die Hauptlehre der Soto-Schule in der immanenten, buddhistischen Natur aller Wesen, sowie der Identität von Übung und Erleuchtung. Also, at Sojiji, you did not position yourself into a ball-shape and you were only tapped twice. I felt that the taps were far harder and louder at Sojiji than at Kencho-ji. Cao-dong) from Rinzai R-A (Chin. Il peut être comparé à la conscience d'un nouveau-né … Hier finden Sie Informationen zum Soto-Zen-Buddhismus, Veranstaltungen, Neuigkeiten, Videos und Orte an denen Sie Zazen praktizieren können. Many of the differences I have found between Rinzai and Soto Zen have to do with practice, although I was not able to find any information on philosophical differences between the schools. The monk will then tap each shoulder-blade area twice, making a total of four taps. July 1969. Might seem like a lot but the differences are ultimately pretty trivial. I'd be too easily sidetracked if they moved at the current point in my practice. Both are valid and each is necessary for a complete understanding of just what “realization” is. Ego dissolution is Soto's bread and butter, and everything else really doesn't get all that much attention from Soto. Hybrid Zen: Rinzai and Soto Merged Yasutani Hakuun (born in 1885) was an unusual Japanese student who became a monk at 11 years of age, was ordained (in Soto Zen) at 13, and attained kensho at 42. Rinzai puts the emphasis on direct intuition (dhyana) of one's Buddha-nature while Soto preaches zazen (sitting Zen) in the faith that the practitioner is already a Buddha. Chan). Zoketsu Norman Fischer and Kathie Fischer about Soto and Rinzai Zen. Lin-ji), the two major schools of Zen Buddhism, because d) We Westerners believe we have a good meta-understanding of koans which undermines their power. Soto Zen’s vision of Enlightenment or Satori is different than that of the Rinzai school. Dieses ist die offizielle Seite des Soto-Zen-Buddhismus auf Englisch, Portugiesisch, Spanisch, Französisch, Italienisch und Deutsch. Soto Zen Buddhist Association Lineage Chart by Charlie Korin Pokorny. M… This serves to jar the student right out of whatever comfort zone they think they might be developing. (This is my expeiemce. You're also a bit more likely to end up with a Lao Tzu style answer than Rinzai's more Zhuangzi-like style, if that makes sense. Bei der Soto-Praxis handelt es sich um eine rezeptive Form des Meditieren, bei der Rinzai-Praxisum eine Meditationsform durch Konzentration. San Francisco. This zazen experience was much shorter, because it was not the only reason I was there. These are broad strokes I'm painting with. My teacher said that the clothing is a bit different between rinzai and soto. Zazen is then the natural unfolding of one's Buddha nature. To practice Soto-zen, I visited the Sojiji Temple in Yokohama. Definitely go if you can, because you will not find many differences between rinzai and soto anyways. Nobody here mentioning the important stuff: Soto sits facing the wall. With regard to Japanese Rinzai and Soto there are differences — not so much in the Chinese forms of Zen (Ch. The Soto approach is to sit around and do absolutely nothing, (the self gets bore and leaves) whilst the Rinzai approach is to f#*k with ones mind (the self becomes so confused it eventually packs up and leaves) ... Ay caramba! Great is an understatement. I go to a Rinzai Zen Temple here in Seattle. This past week I had the opportunity to attempt zazen meditation at both a Rinzai-zen school and a Soto-zen school. Another big difference was the keisaku. After two sessions, we were asked to walk twice around the outside of the temple while holding our hands in a specific position. See also Zen for an overview of Zen, Chan Buddhism for the Chinese origins, and Sōtō, Rinzai and Ōbaku for the three main schools of Zen in Japan. Apparently closing your eyes during meditation is uncommon because it allows your mind to daydream instead of focus, and there is also a good chance you will fall asleep. Unless they catch you sleeping when you should be meditating. This coincided with the Rinzai and Soto Zen traditions ‘abandoning’ the Vinaya Discipline for ordained monks and nuns because it was viewed as both ‘Indian’ and ‘Chinese’, and therefore ‘un-Japanese’ in nature. While both zazen and koans are a part of both schools, in Soto there is more emphasis placed on zazen, while in Rinzai there is more emphasis on koans. This lineage chart displays the lineages of active members of the SZBA as of Sept 18, 2008. You're apt to get less in the way of koans, but be prepared to spend considerably more time on your keester, since Soto zen still considers zazen to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Conversely, Rinzai puts more emphasis on … Chan). I don’t know about Obaku, but I do know the difference between Soto And Rinzai as personal experience. Attaining 'nothing thought' or no-thought is very skilfull. So, what is the difference between... As a group, we sat in zazen for 15-minute increments. Personally I think Rinzai is going to be a better method for most students who actually want to go to a temple and all that, but Soto does away with some chaff that Rinzai's historically used to clear away a lot of the bad ideas students have when they arrive. The biggest difference to me was the atmosphere. I'm currently doing some reading but was wondering if anyone here had input. ), I realize that the differences between the two temples makes Sojiji seem frightening, but this is not at all the case. To me sitting is central. It's not that Soto practitioners don't use koans--we do--but not as an object of meditation, and not in any sort of formal curriculum. Hi every body.... We know that there is two school in Zen, Rinzai and Soto. The monk will stand in front of you and you will bow to each other. The particular style of meditation used by both schools of Zen is called zazen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyozan_Joshu_Sasaki?wprov=sfla1, There's a controversy regarding Sasaki, check his wiki, he was accused of engaging in sexual misconduct. I'd mostly be going just to meet other Buddhists. I just find it hard to believe for so many reasons. This was a sort of walking meditation, which I had never heard of before. Soto is the more 'completed,' in that it doesn't really see much point in the bombastic elements of Rinzai. Both Rinzai and Soto Zen Buddhists study koans and practice Zazen. This goes on until they clearly understand the absurdity of their situation in a level more primal than high-minded logic. To find actual differences one better picks something from the Chinese side and something from the Japanese side. The most proper sitting position was to sit cross-legged with each foot on the opposite thigh. Also in the soto tradition the main lineage is dogen zenjis and his works which include the shobogenzo and shin shobogenzo whereas rinzai more revolves around hakuin zenji and his works which revived the rinzai tradition. Soto Zen emphasizes that meditation, when properly executed, is equally suited for bringing about sudden enlightenment. The place I'm looking at is: http://www.dharmamountain.org/about.html. While both Rinzai and Soto are both forms zazen, they are still very different. The major differences between Soto and Rinzai is that Soto practitioners face the wall while sitting, while Rinzai people face away from the wall; Rinzai people typically sit for periods of 20-25 minutes, while in Soto Zen you usually sit for 30-40 minute … That's not what I mean though but rather it's informal. DISTINGUISHING SOTO AND RINZAI ZEN: MANAS AND THE MENTAL MECHANICS OF MEDITATION Rui Zhu Philosophy Department, Lake Forest College Modern scholars have never successfully distinguished St -F1J (Chin. With some time, I've learned to appreciate a rather more definitive answer and the sudden shock of Rinzai, but then again, Alan Watts never smacked me from beyond the grave and he was a bodhisattva bar none, so maybe the Soto school is onto something. Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō school (曹洞宗, Sōtō-shū) is the largest of the three traditional sects of Zen in Japanese Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku).It is the Japanese line of the Chinese Cáodòng school, which was founded during the Tang dynasty by Dòngshān Liánjiè.It emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no objects, anchors, or content. Do nothing, know nothing, make absolutely no effort. Make sure to step over the threshold: Each temple has a wooden section of the... Read More, One of the most famous names in Japanese history would be Sugawara no Michizane. I have comforted myself in the endless texts of the Theravadans, sometimes content, but at present unwilling to dive directly into the ocean of Zen. The Rinzai method seems twofold, it confronts the student with the futility of their desire to "make it" by setting up a more rigid and formal system of koans through which they must pass, and by filling it with material designed to confront their tendency to try to think their way out of it. The class at Kencho-ji focused very heavily on posture and sitting position. Recommandé pour vous en fonction de ce qui est populaire • Avis What … There is a trap here. One is “to grasp or understand clearly”; the other is “to make real.”. In—in America, between Rinzai Zen and Sōtō Zen there—there must be some clear understanding of—of the two, or relationship of the two. Soto zen contents itself more with the ideas it's presenting than with direct confrontation with a student, even if discussion of the ideas is likely to be met with some consternation. Re: chan/seon/rinzai/soto differences Also: Differences in Zen and Ch'an In short, both Chan and Zen are generic terms for various teachings and traditions. Satori is quick as lightning, and I think only by extinguishing the obscene desire for spiritual progress (by exhaustion/frustration or total denial of its products, those are the two methods on display here) is it obtained, so in that sense, Rinzai is going to produce a more definite and distinctive result, it's going to be more, there it is, whereas Soto is more apt to, say, dismiss the notion that you've been attaining anything at all. Rinzai s’est implanté durant l’ascension de la classe des bushi, bénéficiant du patronage des shoguns autant que de la cour impériale. Read More, If you have visited any temple or shrine in Japan, there is a good chance... I also have a hard time meditating around others but I think I'd find facing them especially odd if the eyes are open. Which one hits you with a stick of bamboo? To practice Rinzai-zen, I visited the Kencho-ji Temple in Kamakura. If there's a zen master shouting, beating students, trashing someone, etc etc, there's a higher chance it's a rinzai school master. I recommend to practice both of them. I really connect with Sheng Yen's Linji style of Chan, predecessor of Rinzai. Hard to transmit a decent smack through a book unless there's someone there to pick the book up and really go at you with it. Under the right conditions, and when cultivating tenderly, the mind will open of its own accord. Rinzai, one of two major Zen Buddhist sects in Japan; it stresses the abrupt awakening of transcendental wisdom, or enlightenment. Die Rinzai-Schule zeichnet sich durch das Zazen, die Gartenkunst, Tee-Zeremonien, Kampfkünste und die Koan-Arbeit aus. To say Rinzai "stresses" koans over Zazen would be inaccurate. I appreciate the time it probably took for that reply. Rinzai Zen lineages 逓代伝法佛祖の名号 Teidai Denpō Busso no Myōgō . Rinzai puts the emphasis on direct intuition (dhyana) of one's Buddha-nature while Soto preaches zazen (sitting Zen) in the faith that the practitioner is already a Buddha. The only sangha around here is operated by two folks that trained under a "Kyozan Joshu Sasaki Roshi" in Rinzai Zen.
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